it's about spending. it's about the debt and when the president's proposal, original proposal would produce, what, about $80 billion next year? that would just cover the incremental increase in interest costs on our debt. we're avoiding the truth. we're avoiding the reality and that's why a lot of us are very cranky about some of the let's do a patch work, let's push it off into the future because we're going to crash and burn under our own debt. >> if you're cranky, think about how the american public feels right now, congressman. they are very cranky that you folks have not been able to make any seeming head way, either on the spending side, which i agree with you is the truly important one that we have to address. >> exactly. >> or on the tax side. but nobody seems to have moved this ball very far forward unless i and everybody else is missing a heck of a lot. on the spending side, what precise specific spending cuts would you like to see and could you buy into, any spending cuts of the defense establi